This just shows how petty these discussions can become if they are simply criticisms of others' posts. Let's keep to the subject in hand, which is the school and governing body. This thread was started because it appeared that at least one member of the governing body was to blame for some files being leaked to the press.
I'm sure the police, if they do get involved, will have a simple job to track down the culprit. Whoever is responsible for this should not be sleeping easy at night. It sounds as though the net is closing in. _________________ EVENTUALLY THE TRUTH WILL OUT, JUSTICE WILL BE DONE.
Ok, who said the leak came from a member of the Governing Body? There are other people who had that confidential file you know, maybe someone not as innocent as originally made out to be.
It's ridiculous that you point the finger at those who can't answer back, I myself have been one of those unable to post until now, for one reason or another.
I know for fact, that there is a full scale investigation ongoing regarding those files, one which is NOT aimed at the Governing Body but at the more likely culprits from the outset.
Wake up people and smell the coffee, you think you're one step ahead, believe me - you're not!
Andrew
I'm sure you will know, Andrew that there was only ever a very limited number of people who should have been given that file in the first place. That limited number consisted mainly of governors. Hence the likelihood (although not a certainty) that it was a governor (with a grudge) who leaked it.
"I know for fact, that there is a full scale investigation ongoing regarding those files, one which is NOT aimed at the Governing Body but at the more likely culprits from the outset."
You seem to know a lot about the investigation. Perhaps you would like to elaborate on who the "more likely culprits" might be. Personally, I can't think of any more likely culprit than a governor - unless you are talking about somebody in the LEA, who also had a copy. In that case, as the LEA are directing the investigation, let's hope they do a thorough and unbiased job.
I certainly don't claim to be one step ahead. I'm simply using the facts I know and thinking logically.
Anyway, there's no real point in speculating. Let's wait for the police investigation. Then we can be really sure. _________________ EVENTUALLY THE TRUTH WILL OUT, JUSTICE WILL BE DONE.
Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 12:08 pm Post subject: One step ahead
I too was surprised that someone posted (Alan ?) that the investigation was aimed only at the governing body. While Pat (is she in any way related to Andrew V or David ?) was questioning Alan's statements a few weeks ago, she did actually raise the same point. Anybody could have got their hands on the documents.
However, I do agree with Mary - it is the governing body who are responsible for gathering the information in the first place AND their responsibilty to make sure that it is destroyed afterwards. So they are culpable to a lesser or greater degree.
SO it does seem, Andrew, that you are a person connected to the school or LEA (or police ?) if you claim to know that another investigation is taking place. As ordinary citizens we are not privy to this type of knowledge - we can only assume it was aimed at governors because of what I have said above - governing bodies in school are the people responsible for holding and using the documents found. Alan Veale was kind enough to give Pat contacts to verify his statements about the packs, the police etc. I don't suppose you would reciprocate by giving us a contact so that we can verify your claim ?
As for David, and his concentration on trivialities - haven't we had some pompous person posting on this site previously in an attempt to move discussion away from the real issues ? I personally think his posts are best simply ignored - and will ignore any spelling, punctuation or grammar comments about this post.
Mary - I'd like to pick up on a couple of points raised in your post if I may.
Firstly, you stated that 'the likelihood was that it was a governor (with a grudge) who leaked it'.
Do you mean a current Governor has a grudge? Or could you mean an ex-governor that has a grudge leaked the file? I'm wondering if you have inside information on the Governing Body to know that one of them has a grudge?
Secondly, in one paragraph you're saying the LEA are investigating and then in the last it's a police investigation - are there 2 ongoing investigations? Or do you think it might be possible that they are both working with each other on this one?
I'm only putting it to you that there might be other possibilities to the versions you've been fed so far.
AR - Thankyou for that bit of clarity, you are right of course that anybody could have those files, but you did say 'another investigation' in answer to my statement - (which might answer my query to Mary about her 2 investigations) has this leak already been investigated? If so, by whom and what was the outcome?
As for a contact - try the Headteacher/Mr Lund/Mr Weaver, I'm sure they're all in the know!
Andrew
Just to clarify things to stop any further misconceptions:
A person (unknown) took a confidential file that belonged to the LEA, but was originally intended to be used as the case for disciplining a former teacher at Marton Primary School, and copied it at least half a dozen times. A covering letter was then prepared, purporting to have been written by Jane Veale, and the file with the letter was then sent to numerous organisations (including the media). The contents of the letter made it clear that this was a deliberate attempt to malign the career of the teacher in question, and the sender asked the recipients not to mention “her” name to anyone because of her connections to me.
We can speculate about the sender forever, and over the curious way in which the letter was phrased and then sent – but there is absolutely no doubt that this was a malicious act, and that it put confidential statements made by persons still connected to the school into the public eye. The legal view is that there is now clearly a case for defamation of character (at least one count), and the police view is that (while no actual crime has been committed) they support any civil action being taken as a result, and will supply forensic assistance to help conclude the official investigation. Both those views have been given to me in person, and I also hold a full copy of the file in question, together with copies of each of the covering letters from the recipients. I do speak therefore from personal knowledge, and I can also confirm that it was David Lund who stated (to the police) that he believed the file to have been circulated only to those people on the list included in the file (the governors). One other person held a copy – the teacher who had been the subject of the file, and that person told me (when I drew their attention to the “leak”) that it was their understanding that only a small number of governors (comprising members of the disciplinary panel) would have been issued with a copy. I can also confirm that impression from my own experience of serving as a governor.
I can also now confirm that, while Lund initially tried to throw the blame for this “leak” in my direction, he has subsequently admitted that it could only have been done by a member of the governing body.
So – there is only ONE investigation, and we will simply have to await the outcome. It is my understanding that this is expected very shortly. I would ask everybody reading this forum to understand that my personal knowledge on this issue is both unique and unusual in its depth. What I have stated above is the truth, and exactly what I would swear in a court of law if required. I do not wish to break anyone’s confidence, so I am being careful about how much of the facts I publish on this Forum, but this also puts me in a position of pressure that I find uncomfortable. For that reason I am reluctant to participate any further in this debate, and I look forward to an early conclusion of the investigation for everybody’s sake.
It seems that Alan Veale has probably provided answers to your questions, Andrew, but in order to be quite clear, I will also add my own responses.
You ask:
"Do you mean a current Governor has a grudge? Or could you mean an ex-governor that has a grudge leaked the file? I'm wondering if you have inside information on the Governing Body to know that one of them has a grudge?"
Firstly, I am simply saying that, in my opinion, it is likely to be governor who has leaked this information. I could not name all the governors, past or present, so I do not "mean" either current or ex. I am referring to the governing body as a group of people, not singling out a particular individual. It doesn't take a huge leap of imagination to conclude that if a governor sent this document (and I've already explained why I think it is likely to be a governor) then it sounds as if this governor had a grudge in order to carry out, what is, in Alan Veale's words, a malicious act. I certainly don't need inside information to draw that conclusion.
You also ask:
"Secondly, in one paragraph you're saying the LEA are investigating and then in the last it's a police investigation - are there 2 ongoing investigations? Or do you think it might be possible that they are both working with each other on this one?"
I would draw your attention to the following quote from Alan Veale's original post:
"This incident is considered to be so serious that the police are holding these packages for forensic investigation, so that the perpetrator can be identified if the investigations currently being undertaken by the LEA do not bear fruit."
Which is why I said: "the LEA are directing the investigation", followed by: "Let's wait for the police investigation."
Unless we are privy to inside information, then none of us knows what form these investigations are taking or are going to take. We can only comment on what we have been told (in this case, Alan Veale's original and subsequent posts where he provides the opportunity for anybody to check on the authenticity of what he has said) and the conclusions we draw from that information. Anything else is speculation, and I concede that I, too, am purely speculating as to the identity of the person who sent those documents. As for beng "fed versions" I'm not quite sure what you mean. I have taken my information from this thread, and based my comments on that. Perhaps you have been fed a different version?
Until there is overwhelming evidence provided by either the LEA or the police; or the person concerned sees fit to admit to it, then I'm afrid, whatever we think, none of us is any the wiser. The sooner this whole affair is concluded, the better. Then we will at least know who the true perpetrators are, and the true victims. _________________ EVENTUALLY THE TRUTH WILL OUT, JUSTICE WILL BE DONE.
Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 1:11 pm Post subject: Investigation
I'm sorry but I think Andrew's latest response, (and Alan's and Mary's) have not clarified anything for me.
Andrew clearly stated "I know for fact, that there is a full scale investigation ongoing regarding those files, one which is NOT aimed at the Governing Body but at the more likely culprits from the outset. "
This statement does not seem like speculation to me. He is stating that he KNOWS there is another investigation being carried out. If Mr Lund has told Alan he believes it to be a governor who was responsible, and if what Andrew is saying is true, Mr Lund is once again not being totally honest - unless of course it is not the LEA carrying out the investigation which Andrew knows about. So who is it ? As we know it isn't the police as they have already stated their position.
So, come on Andrew. Show us that you are not simply speculating or trying to stir things up.
Yes, a small number of the governing body received the file - 3 I believe, and were bound by a confidentiality clause, yes, the teacher in question received the file and yes the Headteacher received one. However, there were also representatives of those people involved, there were also witnessess involved ( a lot of witnesses if my memory serves me right?) so I believe that the number of 'others' far outweighs the 3 governors.
Mr Veale, you state you have a copy of the file - can I ask why? Is it the one returned to your ex-wife - did you copy it before giving it to the Police? or was confidentiality breached a long time ago? I don't expect you to answer that.
Yes, there's an independant investigation ongoing and no I can't 'reveal my source' as it were, as I too am bound to some extent as to what I can and can't say. But as I said before, those at the top will be able to confirm - it was good enough for you when Alan Veale posted Mr Weaver's contact details!
Andrew V – I thank you for confirming details regarding the investigation. It seems (unless you state otherwise) you are close enough to at least one of the parties involved to be able to provide such information. The rest of us generally have to rely on news that is fed through at least a third party… Am I right in understanding from what you say that this file was provided to all those witnesses as well?
My own position has already been stated, so I don’t feel it serves anything to repeat it here. I made my statement to the police, but I am quite happy to answer your question, Andrew – although you will find the answer yourself in my earlier postings. I handed over the first files that were returned in the mail to the police. A further package arrived after that event, and I offered that to them as well, but they felt they had enough already! The copy I hold will be returned to the LEA for disposal – if that is requested. However, I tend to believe that it may be a lot safer for me to put it through a shredder myself…
One word of advice – if this investigation is to remain “independEnt”, would it not be better for you to shut up now, before confidentiality is breached yet again?
Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 11:37 am Post subject: Investigations
Has the school not been through enough - and had enough problems aired publicly? I have reluctantly had to accept, after my first posts that the packs do exist and know that they are being held by the police. Surely that should be enough.
The only investigation which matters is the one being carried out by the LEA as they are in overall charge of education and the hiring and firing of people. However many witnesses were on either side it is very doubtful that they would have received copies of the full file BUT the police have said that they would make forensic evidence available to the authority. I would imagine the papers inside the envelopes will have fingerprints on them which can rule people out, but also I believe nowadays that photocopiers can be pinpointed by certain characteristics.
For once, then, I agree with Mr Veale. Allow the LEA to get on with their investigation and stop publicly speculating. I am not sure, Andrew V, what you hoped to achieve by your posts, but they are not in the best interests of the school. When you state that Mrs Coupe received a copy I hope that you are not insinuating that she is in any way involved.
I agree with Pat.I don't know what Andrew hopes to achieve but he is on very dodgy ground giving away all this inside information.I can tell you that the witnesses did NOT receive any copies of these packs.It is totally against correct procedure to give out any statements to witnesses apart from their own.
I don't take kindly to being told to shut up Mr Veale, and if the attempt to assert some sort of superiority by correcting a spelling mistake was to make you look good, well it doesn't work - not on me at least. I could almost take your 'advice' as a veiled threat.
So, my apologies in the delay in replying, I work away. However, to answer some accusations, I was not in any shape or form pointing the finger at the Headteacher, merely pointing out that she also had a copy of the file along with a few others, so that comment was uncalled for.
As for the breaching of any confidentialities, for a website that shouts for 'truth' and 'justice' - you don't seem to like it when someone speaks some truth? Which is what I have merely done, given you some truth which at the same time muddied the water a little. The issue was, that the finger was pointed at governors, I simply opened it up a little. I certainly didn't say anything that isn't already known.
MKM if you can categorically state that witness did not receive all or part of the file then good. But there is evidence that suggests otherwise to some.
Andrew, Alan didn't tell you to shut up only suggested that you did so to enable the enquiry to be totally independent, "a veiled threat" come on Andrew there have been far to many threats made already.This message board has been running far quite some time now and it seems very strange that every now and again a new "Keyboard Warrior" joins the campaign and has information which comes from the inner circle of Marton.
By your tone of e-mail you seem very confrontational, I may be wrong, have you anything to lose as a result of this enquiry ?
Do you actually want to get to the bottom of this sad act(excuse the pun, read way back Andrew !!!) of character assasination, or how indeed would you like this whole episode to close.
After speaking with town hall officials over the past two years or so, I have to say that I have absolutely no confidence in anyone connected with the LEA or Blackpool Council or for that matter Marton School conducting an in depth enquiry.Like i have said previously, I HOPE I AM WRONG !!
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