Being out of the loop now, I receive the school news a little later than most. Firstly, we must all be pleased at the better Sats results in Year 6 this summer, although we will get a better picture when all school results are published next term so that we can carry out comparisons. Still, I think the authority’s advisers are to be congratulated for their hard work at Marton in raising the standards at the school.
Now, what of the ‘new website’ mystery. A week ago I was told of a new website to be started – not before time because the school site has been pretty static, to say the least, over the last 3 years, especially in comparison with the wonderful efforts of some of Blackpool’s Primary schools (well worth a browse round to see what can be achieved).
But all I found was a single page asking for ideas of what to put on the new site – and this a simple plain page with spelling mistakes. It is disappointing to see the unprofessional and shoddy way in which the school now promotes itself. I did notice though that this page was addressed www.gynw.org/martonps/ which jumped out at being rather strange – not the Blackpool authority’s hosting address. I switched off but then thought “No, stop being negative, download the sheet and send in some positive suggestions”
Lo and behold a few days later the page had ceased to exist. “This account has been suspended” is what greets the viewer now. I attempted to access it through the Blackpool Council’s links to Primary Schools – the same result. Finally I tried through the North West GFL links to NW schools – same result.
Carrying out a search for gynw.org threw up some odd results. Hotel sites hosted by them which were also suspended, a couple of youth groups such as mvfm.org – also suspended. It seems that the gynw.org has been suspended by aqhost which I assume must be the company providing server space for gynw hosting services. On carrying out a ‘whois’ search I found that the gynw domain had been registered by a local Blackpool person.
The name “compsave” also appeared on my earlier searches which seems to be a local computer company.
What does all this mean ?? Can anyone shed any light on the matter ?
There is no way I would get any answers by writing to the school but I hope someone reading this might ask some relevant questions.
Has the IT person in school decided to opt out of the Government scheme for Primary school websites – preferring instead to use a local company to host their site instead of Blackpool authority. If so, it is not off to a good start.
If this is the case then what would be the benefits ?
Has a link been made by the school with a local company who wish to sponsor the school or is the school paying for the new service – even though they are already paying for IT support from the North West GFL which includes hosting space ?
The move is also strange considering the statement for schools on the learning grid’s own website (a statement from the site’s web page dated 17th July 2007)
“The "School Names on the Net" project was supported by the Department for Education and Skills (DfES) and provided all schools with a unique domain in the form school.geographical area.sch.uk. It formed a key element of the government's programme to implement the National Grid for Learning to help Internet users to communicate more easily with your school. In the near future it is likely that it will be a DfES requirement for you to use your school.authority.sch.uk domain.
i.e. marton.blackpool.sch.uk
Are either gynw or compsave connected to a Mr Nathan Hill? To give him the benefit of the doubt he may well have made the contacts through friends to the hosting company BUT we are already suspicious that he has sold computers through his own company to the school. This is fine and good if they provide value for money and are as good as those recommended by the authority’s IT department. I also assume he made his personal financial interests known in doing this – but has he any interest in this latest move? The question needs to be asked by the finance committee of the Governing body – for the school’s own peace of mind – but also from the point of view of equal opportunities. Are all staff able to make extra income ‘on the side’ in addition to their salaries, through the school. Are other IT technicians in Blackpool able to supplement their incomes in a similar way ?
After all, Mr Hill is not averse to making sales by being less than open.
As I continued the research into this, a search for “Nathan Hill” found the following request on a forum :-
“Mono Laser Printers with Duplex Facility
Graham Barker:- I want to buy a mono laser printer that will do duplex printing. I have an elderly HP Laserjet 4 and I'm quite satisfied with this except that I need to print double-sided from time to time and it's a pain feeding the paper through twice and I do get paper jams occasionally using this method.
Print quality is more important to me than speed.
Is anyone able to recommend a good machine? Any suggestions as to the best place to buy - pricewise that is.
There was 1 response :-
Nathan Hill : We were looking for the same as you - I then bought a HP LaserJet 2200DTN. I will never buy another brand of printer other than HP. I am more than sattisfied with this printer. With Network, and full duplex, I recon this is the printer for you. Call 01253 440999 - thats where I got mine from.
Good Luck!”
But the Yell.com listing for Nathan Hill’s computer services shows:-
Then we have the crucial question once again of security. If the school site is not to be hosted on the authority’s servers, then to be available through the 'walled garden' system (which the authority installed in school last year) it will need to be checked thoroughly by the Lancashire NGFL team. The children could then not work on it in school as children have in other Blackpool schools, or access it if it is being created professionally. That is, of course, unless plans are afoot to develop the site on other machines not protected by the ‘walled garden’. I am not very familiar with all this technology – just proposing questions which need to be asked for the safety of the children – we have seen already what happens when systems are not secure and children are not supervised closely.
I look forward to the appearance of this new site, then perhaps we might have a clearer idea of what is happening and know that everything is 'above board'. BUT, and here is the rub, why do questions such as these need to be continually raised about affairs at Marton. I know of no other Primary schools who so often raise questions of propriety in their activities.
R.Thornton, I read your post with great interest, as, like you, I have been puzzling over the "website that disappeared".
About ten days ago, I was told that the new PGL pictures were on the Marton Website. I logged on and had a look at them. I read the information telling us that a new website was being designed (not before time - there were still pictures from the millennium, and children who have now left high school- not to mention the spelling mistakes!). I also followed the link to the questionnaire, asking for ideas for the new website.
Earlier this week, my grandaughter asked to see the PGL pictures. I put in the Marton School website address, only to get the following message:
Account Suspended
This hosting account has been suspended.
If you are the account owner please contact us via the helpdesk - http://www.AQHostSupport.com - to resolve this matter.
Do not phone Sales regarding suspensions, please use the helpdesk as instructed.
Thinking there had been some mistake, I tried again, with the same result. I then went onto the Blackpool Council website and followed the link for schools. Same again. I tried various options to try and access the Marton School site, but each time the message was the same. I thought this was very odd. I did not realise, until reading R. Thornton's post, that sites were being redirected to www.gynw.org (the suspended site).
Things now begin to fall into place. You ask whether gynw or compsave are connected to Mr Hill. I can tell you that Compsave's phone number is 01253 440999 (check out the link: http://www.compsave.co.uk/). Does that number ring any bells? Yes, it's Mr Hill's phone number as you reveal in your post!
Further searches for "compsave" bring up, amongst others, the following result:
An attempt to open that website reveals the following familiar message:
Account Suspended
This hosting account has been suspended etc etc etc
In a nutshell, then, these are the main points:
*Nathan Hill Computer Services has the same phone number as Compsave.
*Compsave has designed websites for local companies/individuals/hotels.
*Those websites are no longer working as the "hosting account has been suspended."
*Somebody decided that the new Marton School Website should use the www.gynw.org hosting site, and, as we all now know, "the hosting account has been suspended."
*Nathan Hill is the IT technician at Marton School.
None of this sounds very good for Marton School.
I will leave you to draw your own conclusions. I have already drawn mine, and now, having read R. Thornton's post, above, I am even more worried about what is going on. _________________ EVENTUALLY THE TRUTH WILL OUT, JUSTICE WILL BE DONE.
Have been lurking this site for many a month now, and not bothered to post till this one, regardless of the rights and wrongs and ins and outs of the issues, on a lighter note,...I had to laugh at compsave link to designing websites...comes up with error 404 about the page not being there...sorry, just tickled me!
update........
looks lke it's back now!! bit flakey!!
a bit like the computers at Marton?
Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:47 pm Post subject: website
Yes the compsave site is running now but the gynw.org sites don't seem to be.
The Google description of gynw.org is 'Hosting Service Portal'
Does this mean, webster, that they rent hosting space from aqhosts? If so aqhosts, for some reason, could have shut down gynw.org and so all the sites they have designed or are in the process of designing.
Where does that leave the school if they have paid money out ?
Far as I know, yes it means "they" rent the space from AQHOSTS. Simple WHOIS shows who 'owns' gynw.org... Won't put it here as if you put
gynw.org in www.who.is then you can find out yourself (it isn't N. Hill!)
It looks like the rent is up on 5th November 2007 for the domain name gynw.org and needs re-hosting after that. Can't see a reason for the AQHOST server pulling it unless someone has asked for it to be? Maybe "they" are transferring it to another hosting company?
Anyway, I was right, the compsave website has a series of links within it that go nowhere...very professional me thinks!
Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:22 pm Post subject: website
Thanks webster.
I did a WHOIS check too and found it was a local Blackpool person.
It may well be of course that everything is above board, and that this person/company (compsave or gynw) is sponsoring a new site.
However the questions do need to be asked because provision is already made under the government scheme so the school shouldn't be paying out any extra.
As I also mentioned above, under the Learning Grid's set up, using an external host it means the site can't be developed by children within school. Some of the best sites I have looked at in Blackpool have had large sections created by children through the school, which does attract parents to visit the site and keeps it alive.
The Nathan Hill connection is also something which needs checking - as Mary has found, there is a telephone link with Compsave. This is a personal opinion, but I do not think employees of the council should be using primary schools to make extra cash 'on the side'.
Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:18 pm Post subject: OLD TRICKS?
In case anyone had forgotten when they last heard Nathan Hill’s name connected with bringing Marton Primary School into disrepute, read the post below from nearly two years ago now to see just what certain people can get away with, and still keep their job working with children. Unbelievable!
Alan VealeMaster of Posters Joined: 07 Oct 2005Posts: 101 Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:37 pm Post subject:
I think this needs some clarification: Nathan Hill is alleged to have been accessing a number of web-sites from school. These are not necessarily pornographic in content, but that does not exclude the possibility that the links on the pages accessed could not lead to “adult” material. It is also confirmed that he had set up his own web page on an “adult” site, advertising himself socially. This included the use of photographs, all of which had been taken in school, and one of which featured a female pupil who has now moved to high school. The parents of the girl had not given their permission for this photograph to be used, which is a very serious issue indeed, and one would have thought worthy of suspension at the very least. However, Mr Hill continues to work at the school. Marton School Action Group became aware of the existence of this site some two weeks ago, and lodged a complaint with the Chairman of Governors on 14 November, asking for the matter to be investigated. We did not know at that time whether Mr Hill had permission to use the photographs. However, it was only on Tuesday 22nd November, when the girl’s mother lodged her own complaint that action was taken to close the web-site. The Action Group have had no response to their letter, but we understand that further action is now being considered by the girl’s parents.
call me crazy...but check out www.nathanhill.co.uk (quite a professional looking website) and the name of his glamourous assistant towards the bottom of the page...this name is very similar to the chap who registered the gynw.org website...is this just a coincidence? maybe or maybe not..is the plot getting a little thicker?
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:40 am Post subject: Jigsaw
There's been some good sleuthing here. Well done webster - I followed your link and it all falls into place. This Nathan Hill seems to be a typical Blackpool entrepeneur - doing 3 jobs at the same time. As Mr Thornton asks though, will school suffer because of it - by paying out, or quality of his work after his late night broadcasts. If not, good luck to him.
My other question is what is the school IT person doing. Shouldn't they be sorting out the policy for the website not the technician ? or have they made the decision to move it away from the authority ?
Do you think, webster, there will be any problems with security in hosting with someone else as far as children visiting dodgy sites like they did last year ?
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject: In Response
Firstly, please allow me to introduce myself and explain my position with Compsave Computer Services. My name is Steven Normyle, and I am currently managing the day to day running of Compsave Computer Services – based here in Blackpool.
As a company, we provide computer repairs, custom builds, networking and website design services. As many of you will be aware, the owner of the company is Mr. N. Hill – also ICT technician at Marton Primary School.
Before explaining the reasons behind the recent problems with the Marton School Website, I would firstly like to explain that as a company, we have offered a hosting service to Marton Primary School at no cost to either the school or the LEA.
Over the coming few months, a team of both parents and staff from Marton are working to design and build a new website which we will host through our service providers as a donation to the school.
I understand that some users of this forum have questioned the safety of using external providers for this service. The hosting service provided to all schools through the council, whilst of a high standard is restrictive in terms of accessing the site to make changes. This, for example, would mean that staff are unable to make any updates or changes to sites held on the council hosting unless they are accessing the site from within the council network. Hosting provided externally does not carry with it these restrictions. This does not in any way affect the internet provision provided to the school and as such, will not make any difference to the safety of children accessing the internet from within the school. This will remain the responsibility of the school and LEA. Compsave is in no way responsible or in control of the walled garden or Internet provison.
During a recent school trip to PGL, it became apparent that the council hosting service was not easy to update with current pictures and messages home. For this reason, I made hosting available on a provisional basis whilst speedy updates were required for the school site. During this time, the school website was moved to a testing account that we use. This is where the domain name ‘gynw.org’ is apparent. This domain name is simply a web address used to access this particular hosting account. (This domain was previously registered by me a number of years ago whilst involved in other projects. This has no connection or relevance to the use of the domain currently)
References have been made to other material held on this hosting account. I use this domain to test some sites prior to opening specific hosting accounts for our customers. This is merely to reduce our own operational costs and is in no way in connection to the school, council or anyone other than Compsave Computer Services.
Due to many changes currently in progress for our company, I have recently entered discussion with our service provider about the service level agreement that covers all of our hosting accounts with them. Whilst this should not have affected any of our accounts with them, several accounts were suspended without notice. This was a mistake on the behalf of our providers and should not have affected our customers, or in this case, Marton Primary School. It was unfortunate that whilst providing an alternative service (at no cost) to make the updating of relevant information for the parents of children going to PGL, we had the loss of some service.
Previous posts have also made reference to the sale of computers to the school. I can confirm Compsave Computer Services have never provided Computers for the school. In all honesty, as a company we are not large enough to be able to provide the quantity of computers that a school such as Marton would purchase. Besides this point, it would be a direct conflict of interest for Mr. N. Hill and the LEA.
We are a legitimate company, filing all the required legal documentation as required. I will gladly openly discuss any further issues that you may have. You can contact me directly via email – steve@compsave.co.uk
As a company, I publicly apologise for the lack of provision during the final week of school, However, mistakes can and do occur in the provision of all services. I hope that this will answer your questions and hope to see this matter laid to rest.
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:55 pm Post subject: Clarification
Many thanks, Steve, for this clarification. It has been the lack of explanations and information which has caused so many problems in recent years so I am pleased that you have posted to clear up some of the points which have been raised.
Concerning the walled garden being used by Lancashire and NW NGFL schools. Under the scheme the Lancashire team need to verify the site before it is allowed to be used from within school. Are you confident that gynw/compsave with its other hosting commitments will pass their tests ? or are you planning for the site to accessible only from home computers?
I also assume that you will keep the address name (soon to be compulsory) marton.blackpool.sch.uk with forwarding from the authority's server.
I was given the information personally on the best of authority that a number of computers were supplied last year by Mr. Hill - which remained unused for quite a period. I realise that not all computers would be supplied by a small company, and apologise if the information I was given is actually wrong. Yes it would be a conflict of interest for Mr. Hill - but if he declared this interest, and the company provided value for money, I don't think there would be a problem. I just wanted to make sure that it was above board and the governors knew that this had been done - a simple check can be made through the school invoices to verify what you have said.
I also wonder why there were problems posting PGL photos this year when there have been no problems in the past ?
I look forward to the new site - and hope that you do involve children too during development of the site as other Blackpool schools have done, and that spelling and grammar are thoroughly checked as the initial page announcing the new site was a very poor advert for the school.
I do not wish to appear negative Steve, but as I said above we have had so many problems with things being hidden and not always above board - particularly in the attempts by Mr Hill to close both the first site and this forum, using false claims of acting on behalf of the school, sending false emails to the hosting company and threatening legal action.
I am not satisfied that the above is a suitable response. Firstly, wasn't Mr Hill questioned about posting images of school children on an adult site? Did the Governors ever provide any reasurance to parents? I don't recall seeing any. Correct me if I am wrong.
Secondly, can any company come in and start working with children at the school? Don't they all have to have clearance through CRB?
Will this have been done? I dare say the LEA will now be frantically looking at it and trying once again to cover up as they did with Porn sites on school computers, a male supply infant teacher looking at inapropriate material in a class full of children, not doing the MUGA when the lottery money had been given and God only knows what else.
I am afraid I really have no faith in the school to be honest to parents. They have put children at too much risk in the past without the decency to apologise and make good their mistakes.
Interesting side thought...have all the parents of ALL the children IN the pictures now shown on an EXTERNAL website signed a disclaimer saying they don't mind their images being displayed? I know my niece had to do this on one in Lancashire schools - and that was on a council run website, one parent said no and all the pictures with their child in HAD to be removed!! Just a thought - wouldn't want anyone getting into trouble eh?
Also, has the person USING these images been CRB cleared - Steven - I think I'm talking to you...
Good comments from Steven, good idea that didn't quite work eh? Get PGL pictures hot of the press into the website, trouble is, no-one could get onto the website - as a great man once said...doh! Wasn't it better as it was?
From the looks of all the missing hyperlinks in the COMPSAVE website - it's to be hoped a better job is done with the marton one...raising standards etc!
to quote a link from compsave website...
ERROR 404 The page you requested could not be found or my be missing please inform compsave about this message (info@compsave.co.uk)
I know it may have taken time to upload the details from within the council, but better that than NO website what so ever? Ho hum! It is working now - and looking pretty - however, I'm not sure what it was like before - anyone?!?!?!
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:26 pm Post subject: In Response
Further, in response to the above posts.
Please, allow me to make clear that this will be my final posting on this forum. Any further questions should be forwarded to me directly to the email address already stated.
I have no direct connection or affiliation to Marton Primary School. I do not represent the school or offer any answers/solutions to many of the points raised on these forums. I represent Compsave Computer Services and myself in the actions taken in the temporary provision of web hosting in the last two weeks of the school year.
The content of the Marton School website has not been, both previously and curently, and will not be in the future - the responsibility of Compsave Computer Services, or any other company we represent through the provision of our services (I am therefore unble to comment on the content of the school website).
In this instance, we have provided a space for hosting at no cost to the school and/or LEA.
Both myself personally, and as a company do not take responsibility for the content of websites hosted on server space we rent. We simply provide the means for this server space to be used by our clients.
As in all our hosting provision, the content of websites remains the responsibility of our clients and this is the case in reference to Marton Primary School. It is my understanding that Marton like most schools request the permission of parents/guardians for the publication of any images including their children. However, we, as a company do not take responsibility for this.
Although I do not have direct contact with children from Marton Primary School, and therefore am not required to offer CRB disclosure in this case, although in fact I am CRB cleared. Having previously worked in the NHS and other services where CRB clearance has been necessary, I am aware of the importance of such checks.
I would like to make the following clear:
Compsave Computer Services, or anyone that represents Compsave Computer Services in a professional capacity in relation to Marton Primary School will not be involved in the design or build process of the School Website. As such, I cannot answer your questions in relation to the involvement of children from the school, staff or parents in this process.
As a company, Compsave Computer Services are offering to provide the hosting for a new site at no cost to the school or LEA and will therefore not gain anything financially from the service provision. We are donating the service to the school as part of our commitment to working within the community.
As we are not providing a design service to the school I see no relevance to the current designs and content in any other site that we host for either our own company or for our clients. The current Compsave website does indeed have errors in relation to missing links. This does not in any way relate to Marton Primary School, its staff or our service provisions. In fact, our own website is currently under development in line with the changes we are currently undertaking within the company. I will not enter discussion about the content of our company website as this bares no relevance. I will consider any further comment as defamatory and will seek appropriate advice.
To that end, it is saddening to read the comments that have appeared in this thread. I will not make reference to particular posts but would advise that anything further be emailed to me directly. Any further insinuation in relation to the company will be acted upon accordingly. It is unusual for small companies to offer such services at no cost and I find it disheartening that despite best efforts to offer my sincerest apologies for the problems we have encountered, some members of this forum feel it necessary to attempt to discredit this donation to a local school.
Yours,
Steven Normyle
Compsave Computer Services.
Company Manager.
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:54 am Post subject: Not a "techie"
Not being technically minded, a lot of the web-related points made in the above posts tend to go right over my head, so I leave the salient points of discussion to others better qualified. However, I have to applaud Steve for the prompt and responsible way in which he has responded.
As Mr Thornton has already stated, we have become so accustomed to the apathy and ignorance of the Council, the school and the Education Authority that it is a refreshing change to find someone who is prepared to respond with any degree of reassurance. It seems to me that Steve has provided some very interesting information on the way in which his company operates, and it is certainly welcome news that no person connected with the company he represents will have any input on the content of the website being prepared. Again, like Mr Thornton, I would hope that the children themselves have sufficient input on the design and content – and I am sure that the relevant members of staff at the school will take heed, and ensure Mr Hill is only referred to for his technical qualifications.
I would therefore urge those “techies” who wish to take this further to take up Steve’s invitation to email him direct, and let us concentrate on debate that remains relevant to the point at issue: - the school itself, its management, and the future of education in Blackpool.
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